acurracy Vs. dmg nodes
*Disclaimer - not feedback - just trying to get a discussion on the topic that affects gameplay
Lets say accuracy is naturally at 80% (I believe this is a lowball - probably 85% is more accurate, but for the sake of this we will go 5% lower)
lets say you have a weapon that attacks 1 time per second and does 50-150 per attack.
DPS is 100 but then reduce it by 20% to account for accuracy to make it 80 dps
A single accuracy node is unlikely to give more than 1% each node, but let's make it 3% each node of accuracy - just to prove my point coming up
The math should be the same regardless of how many nodes you put into either accuracy or damage - so lets do the math for 3 nodes that you are wondering where to
place.
First example you place nodes in accuracy, this brings your accuracy to 89% (using 3% per node)
So your DPS changes from 80 to 89.
Now let's say you put the 3 nodes into dmg, each being 10% increase - screw it, let's say 6% which is extremely low, considering most are 10% or will equate to 10% once the you get to the final node in a cluster of nodes.
so that is a 18% increase (using 6% dmg nodes as a lowball to prove the point)
The damage on the bow is turned from 50-150 to 59 - 177
Changing dps to 118 before accuracy.
Now we have to account for the 80% accuracy
118 * 80% = 94.4
So going accuracy nodes = 89 dps
Damage nodes = 94.4
Which may not seem like that much until you realize I comepletely butchered the damage nodes by doing the math 4% under average
and comepletly over valued accuracy at 3% per node.
----
For those who want realistic math and not over and under exageration to find out exactly how absurd the difference is - most accuracy nodes have some other 'bonus'
that is simply too weak of a bonus to make it worth it.
Lets use the attack speed accuracy nodes to the right of ranger start.
the total for all 3 is 20 dexterity, 9% AS, and 36% accuracy, and let's say acuracy goes up by 1% per 8% increased accuracy, so 36/8 = +4.5% increase to accuracy
and let's say base is same as before at 80%
same weapon 50-150 dmg, 1.0 attack per second
The new weapon AS after 9% increase is 1.09 APS and the accuracy is 85% (Let's round up from the 4.5 increase - make it an even 5%)
the dex will give 4% increased evasion and 40 flat accuracy
So, (50+150)/2 = 100 * 1.09 = 109 * 85% = 92.65 DPS
Now lets just do 3 dmg nodes - each being 10% (Average % increase on tree)
so with a 30% increase 50-150 turns into 65 - 195 = 260/2 = 130 * 1.0 = 130 * 80% = 104 DPS
3 accuracy nodes = 92.65 DPS
3 damage nodes = 104 DPS
In conclusion, accuracy nodes are underpowered. I am using static electricity jewel, and the accuracy/AS/and dex
(dex gives +20 so it's +20 to max lightning dmg) IS STILL NOT ENOUGH to justify getting those nodes unless you are filling
in what you are next to because it is late and getting to other damage nodes would take too long (Which, when you do get
there after using 'filler' for lack of a better word you should remove the filler nodes and place them into the damage nodes
for much higher DPS)
Didn't do the math on the crit accuracy - but am pretty sure that it also is worse than dmg nodes in most, if not for all weapons.
*My extremely under qualified opinion that holds no weight at all is that they should remove accuracy as a mechanic and should replace the passive effect of 1 DEX = 2 accuracy with 1 DEX = 2 flat evasion and should replace accuracy nodes with a more powerful version of the 'bonuses' to getting the accuracy nodes. Change the AS/Accuracy nodes just attack speed to 6% to 8% per node ( 18-24% total) and the crit/accuracy nodes to 60% crit chance + 10% increased crit multiplier or 75% increased crit chance for the 3 nodes
TL:DR Accuracy is not worth putting points into unless it is per chance while getting to a group of damage nodes.

Last edited by RichardBachman on Nov 1, 2015, 2:36:48 PM

Posted by
on Nov 1, 2015, 2:30:19 PM

What else is new. There's a reason Accuracy-based builds take five or more Damage clusters and one Accuracy cluster. That said, your calculations are very deceptive because there's a whole lot more Increased Damage in total compared to Accuracy, and it's only the last couple points that really matter. Going from 200% to 220% Increased Damage is nowhere near as good as going from 0% to 20% - and that is the point where Accuracy clusters become relevant. Early on you can just coast on Dex and Accuracy gain from levels, Chance to Hit doesn't start dropping to 80% until way later, when you already have a bunch of Increased Damage.

Last edited by Vipermagi on Nov 1, 2015, 2:39:16 PM

Posted by
on Nov 1, 2015, 2:38:05 PM

'

*My extremely under qualified opinion that holds no weight at all is that they should remove accuracy as a mechanic and should replace the passive effect of 1 DEX = 2 accuracy with 1 DEX = 2 flat evasion

Umm, this might be just a nitpick, but what would we need evasion for if there's no accuracy? :)
Accuracy nodes aren't that bad these days, they usually have other useful bonuses like attack speed or crit. And you do need some amount of them, for right side builds taking only a few nodes makes a difference because of high base. Unfortunately, for left side builds they will do jack shit without some flat accuracy on gear, so if I'm about to suggest anything at all, it's giving some base accuracy along with percentage on every acc node.
High accuracy is a must for a crit build because it checks twice so its effect on dps is squared.

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Posted by
on Nov 1, 2015, 2:43:38 PM

Accuracy is never worth it over damage nodes.
0 - 20% is not bigger than 200-220% it is actually increased by the same amount.
Example:
100 dps weap +20% dmg = 120
100 dps weap +200% dmg = 300 + 20% = 320 DPS
The damage remains the same, the accuracy goes down, but even letting it hit absurdly low numbers you will be better off getting damage nodes.
I think I understand what you are saying - at low level there isn't as much of a nerf to your damage because your accuracy is pretty high early on.
Even so, it is still better to get damage because regardless of what level you are, damage will out scale the negation caused by low accuracy.
The math is to scale, it's why i used an even hundred DPS as base to make it easier to understand.
Damage is better. Math is math as far as I'm concerned, and if I messed up my math, by all means, let me know and show your work, as I have, so I can understand it better.
@Raics I am not sure what you mean, accuracy and evasion are two different things, one is your chance to hit, and once is your chance to avoid being hit.
As far the double check you discuss, I have to do the math, I think it will be a close call and you may be 100% correct - but will post the math when I'm done 'mathing' - (Was supposed to be a pun for mapping - I feel lame now)

Last edited by RichardBachman on Nov 1, 2015, 2:56:19 PM

Posted by
on Nov 1, 2015, 2:48:52 PM

'

100 dps weap +20% dmg = 120
100 dps weap +200% dmg = 300 + 20% = 320 DPS

Relative increase is what counts, going from 100 to 120 is 20% more and going from 300 to 320 is 6% more. If spending 3 points on the tree on damage would push your damage up by 5% and three accuracy nodes would increase your chance to hit from 80 to 86%, accuracy would be better because that would be 7% more dps.
For a crit build that would be 15% more because of double-dip, that's a major boost.

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Posted by
on Nov 1, 2015, 2:55:55 PM

'0 - 20% is not bigger than 200-220% it is actually increased by the same amount.'
I never said it a larger increase - I said it was a better increase, which as Raics has already explained, is a relative term.
'@Raics I am not sure what you mean, accuracy and evasion are two different things, one is your chance to hit, and once is your chance to avoid being hit. '
They are two sides of the same coin. Chance to Hit is determined by comparing Accuracy Rating to Evasion Rating; Chance to Evade is simply 100 - Chance to Hit (also works the other way around, of course). If Accuracy ceases to exist, then Evasion Rating doesn't work because the formula is missing a value.
Why do you think your Accuracy decreases as you fight higher level monsters?
Because higher level monsters have more Evasion Rating. :)

Last edited by Vipermagi on Nov 1, 2015, 3:03:29 PM

Posted by
on Nov 1, 2015, 3:02:17 PM

so let me get this straight,
if ones accuracy is low, like 80%, then there is only an 80% chance of
engaging the others evasion response. meaning there is a 20% chance
to be miss before the evasion is even engaged. (as though a native 20%
chance to dodge)
git yer accuracy up to 99.9% and that 'native chance to dodge' doesn't exist.
accuracy doesn't defeat evasion.
I agree that most of the time +damage causes more than +accuracy,
and also agree that accuracy helps more late game when one already
has a lot of +damage nodes.

Posted by
AgnosiousD
on Nov 1, 2015, 3:12:01 PM

'

'@Raics I am not sure what you mean, accuracy and evasion are two different things, one is your chance to hit, and once is your chance to avoid being hit. '

Yes, so if we remove accuracy, evasion is a dead stat.

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Posted by
on Nov 1, 2015, 3:12:18 PM

raics, how are they tied again? I didnt quite get what you and viper were saying.

Posted by
AgnosiousD
on Nov 1, 2015, 3:14:29 PM

'

raics, how are they tied again? I didnt quite get what you and viper were saying.

You get chance to hit by comparing attacker's accuracy score with defender's evasion score, you got the exact formula on wiki.

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Posted by
on Nov 1, 2015, 3:19:44 PM