Bought this jewel since trading system listed it as a jewel with increased physical damage, turns out its bugged out and I don't get the bonus damage.

Last bumped on Jan 25, 2018, 11:38:39 AM

Posted by
Kaspis37
on Jan 19, 2018, 4:31:49 PM

Does the damage not change at all, or just not as much as you wanted? The mod is still an 'increased damage' mod, which means is stacks additively with other mods of that group.

TradeMacro: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1757730
ItemInfo: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1678678

Posted by
aRTy42
on Jan 19, 2018, 4:42:12 PM

Posted by
on Jan 19, 2018, 5:59:02 PM

I think its originally added crit or something similar and since my character doesn't have them, I only get a tiny bit of damage from cast speed.

Posted by
Kaspis37
on Jan 20, 2018, 10:05:19 AM

I just gone one with 15% Increased Global Physical Damage.
Does it even count if you equip it?
My character doesn't use physical damage so I can't check.

Posted by
on Jan 21, 2018, 8:30:42 PM

The mod 'increased physical damage' was reworded to 'increased global physical damage' everywhere (except for weapons, where it is local). I guess the intention was to make it clearly different to said local 'increased physical damage' mod found on weapons.
The should be no functional change at all.
@Kaspis37:
You are using attacks. You don't get higher damage from 'cast speed'. I still think you misunderstand the jewel. It should give you higher physical damage, but the 16% stacks with all your other 'increased damage' mods you already have.
You have a total of 519% increased physical damage on Cyclone already (passive tree and item effects), so you get to 535% with the jewel. This means your tooltip should change around 2.6%, because factor 6.35 compared to 6.19 is ≈1.026 higher.

TradeMacro: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1757730
ItemInfo: https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1678678

Posted by
aRTy42
on Jan 21, 2018, 8:45:18 PM

Posted by
Kaspis37
on Jan 25, 2018, 11:38:39 AM

I have some questions about if and how poison damage is influenced by damage increases. There is very little information out there and even that is contradictory. So I decided to create some examples that are not realistic but should make the machanics clear. If you answer on this thread without being sure you are correct feel free to do so, but please note that in your answer (I think, I believe, I guess etc.). Thank you all for your help!
I have an attack skill with 1000 base chaos damage and no other damage. No critical strike chance, 100% chance to hit, 100% chance to poison, no increases to poison damage. Then I get 200 damage per second from my poison.
(1) Now I have 10% increased attack damage. How much damage per second do I get from my poison?
(2) Instead I have 10% increased chaos damage. How much poison damage per second?
(3) No longer no critical strike chance, instead 100% critical strike chance, 200% critical strike multiplier, no Perfect Agony allocated. (The hit now deals 2000 damage.) How much poison damage per second do I get?

Last edited by VValnuss on Feb 27, 2018, 11:36:32 AM

Posted by
VValnuss
on Feb 27, 2018, 11:33:10 AM

Posted by
VValnuss
on Feb 27, 2018, 11:37:59 AM

Unless there is somehow some hidden mechanics that i don't know about i'm 95% sure i'm right according to my knowledge.
1. 200. Base dmg is not changed 1000*0.2 = 200
2. 220. This is called double dipping, where the modifier applies to the original hit and the ailment caused by the hit, THIS IS NO LONGER IN THE GAME, was removed due to being too op. Poison is calculated from the BASE DAMAGE of the hit now, NOT THE SCALED DAMAGE.
3. 300. Base crit for ailemnt is 150% and cannot be changed except Perfect Agony. 1000*0.2*1.5 = 300

Last edited by 5Six on Feb 27, 2018, 12:23:22 PM

Posted by
on Feb 27, 2018, 12:07:32 PM

'

I have an attack skill with 1000 base chaos damage and no other damage. No critical strike chance, 100% chance to hit, 100% chance to poison, no increases to poison damage. Then I get 200 damage per second from my poison.

Correct.

'

(1) Now I have 10% increased attack damage. How much damage per second do I get from my poison?

Poison is not Attack Damage. It is Damage over Time, which is a fundamentally different Damage Source than Attack Damage. Thus your Poison will still do the same 200 Damage per second.

'

(2) Instead I have 10% increased chaos damage. How much poison damage per second?

Poison is Chaos Damage, so it is affected by this modifier. You deal 200 * 1.1 = 220 Damage per second.

'

(3) No longer no critical strike chance, instead 100% critical strike chance, 200% critical strike multiplier, no Perfect Agony allocated. (The hit now deals 2000 damage.) How much poison damage per second do I get?

I will quote Rory:

'

Rory wrote:

Your Critical Damage Multiplier will now not influence Poison, Bleeding and Ignite damage, as a result of these ailments no longer being based on the final damage of your hit. Instead, players and monsters now have a property called Damage Multiplier for Ailments from Critical Strikes, which boosts the damage of Ignite, Poison and Bleed caused by critical strikes.

Without Perfect Agony, Your Critical Strike Multiplier has no effect on 'Damage Multiplier for Ailments from Critical Strikes' (which might be the worst named stat in all of PoE). The base value of this multiplier is 150%, so Poison inflicted from a Critical Hit will deal 200 * 1.5 = 300 Damage per second.
Further reading:
Ailment, Poison;
Developer Manifesto: Damage over Time changes, Part 2 of the same, FAQ Part 1, Part 2;
Mark_GGG with pictures

We heard you like skill trees, so we put a skill tree in your skill tree.

Last edited by Abdiel_Kavash on Feb 27, 2018, 12:27:59 PM

Posted by
on Feb 27, 2018, 12:22:47 PM

Thank you again! I consider my questions answered.

Posted by
VValnuss
on Feb 27, 2018, 1:59:05 PM

Hello Exiles :D
I also have some questions abaut Poison and don't want to open another Thread. Hope it is Ok.
I'm New to the Game an wanted to start with the new League.
I know so far: +Base Damage from Weapon, Armor and Support Gems are summarized for the Poison Damage calculation.
But some Terms in relation to Buff Poison are kinda Confusing.
But now to the Questions.
--
To use an similar example.
We have 1000 Physical Damage with an Attack Skill.
1)
And just the Passive Bow Note:
'Master Fletcher'
24% increased Phys Dmg with Bows.
10% chance to Poison on hit with Attacks.
24% inreased Damage with Ailments from Attack Skills while wielding a Bow.
I Hit the Enemy for 1240 Physical(1000*1.24) in the Face.
And inflict 248 Poison(1000*0.2*1,24) over 2Seconds?
(Wiki said 20% is PoisonDamage and duration 2seconds)
Is Poison an Ailment from an Attack Skill? Like Bleed from Puncture?
Or just from the hit?
--
2)
Now we will just add:
20% Increased Global Physical Damage.
Does it inflict 240 Poison(1000*0,2*1.2)or still just 200 Poison(1000*0.2)?
At which Point get the Physical Dmg of the Attack converted to ChaosDamage?
--
Thanks for the Help.

Posted by
leptosomatidae
on Feb 28, 2018, 12:23:39 AM

'

We have 1000 Physical Damage with an Attack Skill.
1)
And just the Passive Bow Note:
'Master Fletcher'
24% increased Phys Dmg with Bows.
10% chance to Poison on hit with Attacks.
24% inreased Damage with Ailments from Attack Skills while wielding a Bow.
I Hit the Enemy for 1240 Physical(1000*1.24) in the Face.
And inflict 248 Poison(1000*0.2*1,24) over 2Seconds?

Correct on both accounts. (It is 248 Poison Damage per second over 2 seconds, so 496 Poison Damage total.)

'

Is Poison an Ailment from an Attack Skill? Like Bleed from Puncture?

Poison delivered by an Attack is an Ailment from Attack Skill. But you can also deliver Poison through Spells; in that case it is not.

'

2)
Now we will just add:
20% Increased Global Physical Damage.
Does it inflict 240 Poison(1000*0,2*1.2)or still just 200 Poison(1000*0.2)?

The latter. Poison is Chaos Damage, not Physical. It will not benefit from Physical Damage modifiers.

'

At which Point get the Physical Dmg of the Attack converted to ChaosDamage?

Never. Poison Damage starts as Chaos Damage, it never gets converted to anything. (And fundamentally cannot get converted, as it is Damage over Time.)

We heard you like skill trees, so we put a skill tree in your skill tree.

Last edited by Abdiel_Kavash on Feb 28, 2018, 3:55:24 AM

Posted by
on Feb 28, 2018, 3:50:45 AM

'

'

2)
Now we will just add:
20% Increased Global Physical Damage.
Does it inflict 240 Poison(1000*0,2*1.2)or still just 200 Poison(1000*0.2)?

The latter. Poison is Chaos Damage, not Physical. It will not benefit from Physical Damage modifiers.

'

At which Point get the Physical Dmg of the Attack converted to ChaosDamage?

Never. Poison Damage starts as Chaos Damage, it never gets converted to anything. (And fundamentally cannot get converted, as it is Damage over Time.)

Can you back this up? It is not consistent with my understanding. And I just 'tested' (per character screen) and (global) Physical Damage does increase the 'Poison damage per second' stat - as expected.

No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!

Posted by
Zrevnur
on Feb 28, 2018, 9:18:49 AM

'

A melee physical based attack build using the poison gem will now no longer have their increased melee physical damage bonuses applied to the poison, meaning the poison will be doing significantly less damage. Does this mean that trying to use poison on any build invested in physical damage is not worth the investment?
Technically, those modifiers never applied directly to poison, they only applied to the hit. This then had an effect on the base damage of the poison because that was the final hit damage. Those modifiers will still apply only to the hit, as before, but since the poison is no longer based on the hit's final damage, they won't change the poison's base damage any more.
This means that if you have taken no weapon clusters or supports that benefit the poison damage, the poison damage will indeed be lower. However, in the Beta, many weapon clusters will have large modifiers to Bleeding or Poison damage on them, in addition to their other effects, so you will have some natural increases to Bleeding or Poison Damage by directing yourself to those clusters, while still increasing your physical hit damage.

From https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1897612.

We heard you like skill trees, so we put a skill tree in your skill tree.

Posted by
on Feb 28, 2018, 9:29:08 AM

'

'

A melee physical based attack build using the poison gem will now no longer have their increased melee physical damage bonuses applied to the poison, meaning the poison will be doing significantly less damage. Does this mean that trying to use poison on any build invested in physical damage is not worth the investment?
Technically, those modifiers never applied directly to poison, they only applied to the hit. This then had an effect on the base damage of the poison because that was the final hit damage. Those modifiers will still apply only to the hit, as before, but since the poison is no longer based on the hit's final damage, they won't change the poison's base damage any more.
This means that if you have taken no weapon clusters or supports that benefit the poison damage, the poison damage will indeed be lower. However, in the Beta, many weapon clusters will have large modifiers to Bleeding or Poison damage on them, in addition to their other effects, so you will have some natural increases to Bleeding or Poison Damage by directing yourself to those clusters, while still increasing your physical hit damage.

From https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/1897612.

Not sure what you are trying to say with the quote. I dont see how it matters/applies here. The issue here is about 'global/generic physical damage' (which applies to ailments) not 'increased melee physical damage' (which does not apply to ailments). Far as I understand poison does work akin to damage conversion so all the modifiers 'prior' to chaos damage 'conversion' do work.

No wonder it's lost, it's in the middle of the jungle!

Posted by
Zrevnur
on Feb 28, 2018, 10:48:17 AM